so we’re all on the same page then. thanks for coming to my ted talk.
In the first 6 minutes: “How is there any way to know if one shop is more professional than another?”
If only there was a way to read what other people have said about the shop…
Around 27 minutes: “Why didn’t you call out the shops that failed?”
Answer: I didn’t want to hurt them in any way but cutting into their bottom line and asking for a refund.
Calling them out is not the same as asking for a refund. I would have liked to see what they say when you discuss the failure points and fixture table as a solution.
Jason. I am not a fabricator but I would like to comment on one thing in your LIVE Q&A
and that is, you were asked about Laser welding and you said you thought it would make a difference. I didn’t even know about laser welding until I heard it on your channel. I did research it though and found it to be more than promising. Seems like if you wanted to really test the best fabricating methods, that you would have to start with Laser welding since heat and warpage were so much of your topic. Yes its expensive but just as your table and tools cut down on time, I think that this new welding would also do the same. I have a feeling Laser welding is going to be much of the future. I believe your fabrications test should include this or send your square to a fabricator that has a Laser welder and find out how good they can do. Technology is moving so fast its hard to keep up with. Isn’t it?
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His higher standard of fabrication had nothing to do with the standard he held them to, which was on the print.
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People learn new things all the time. There are also consultants who can help.
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This job WAS the vendor qualification, they’re called sample parts.
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The print my man, it’s all on the print.
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He made his parts to print, just like they claimed to do.
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Inspecting parts to make sure they’re to print is literally their job. If you’re measuring things out and making parts, it’s your job to make sure it’s to print.
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It’s up to the fabricator to determine their prices. They are the ones who know what their costs are, and again, I hate to keep harping on this, but their job is to quote the parts made to the print. His problem wasn’t their pricing, it was their results.
Also…
Tolerances and GD&T are different things. Tolerances can be specified without using GD&T. GD&T is a system of dimensioning and tolerancing to an international standard, so I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on it. Besides, it’s not like they were out a tiny bit because the guys can’t read prints, it’s because they can’t hold and then didn’t verify the dimensions when they treat the job as a throwaway job where they don’t have to make the part to print. If they were unclear on the print that is on them to clarify the intent, I’ve done it hundreds if not thousands of times when quoting jobs.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a print is essentially a contract and once you take on the work, it’s either fulfilled or it isn’t. If Jason was just a random guy who didn’t get the parts he needed, and wasn’t refunded his money, he could go to court and likely get his money back because the fabricator didn’t provide the parts to print. This is the reality all of us us up against if we take on work for other people.
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“ …The print my man, it’s all on the print……”
That’s the bottom line for me. Even the shop delighted to have a quality drawing to work from only took it as a suggestion.
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Jason I didn’t get to watch this live but i had a thought I know the shops you got to weld were just to compare to but what about going back to them and offering them a table at discounted rate to help improve their business. They may not take you up on it but at least give them an opportunity
GD&T is an international standard because it removes as much ambiguity as possible. As for “it’s not like they were out a tiny bit because the guys can’t read prints” and GD&T, Jason failed one of the builds on the flatness callout by rocking it to one side and sliding a 1/16 shim under the far corner. That is a biased measurement. Pulling the average plane of the top surface on the CMM may show that it was technically within the flatness specification. Using GD&T specifies to what datum features the measurement is taken, and could be specified as Jason inspected it, by specifying which faces should be against the flat reference.
@momentumv Except the prints weren’t dimensioned with GD&T. Had they been, then discussions about GD&T would be relevant. What the first print actually called out was 1/16" maximum twist, and all dimensions +/-1/16".
In the second iteration he had weld callous that basically conform to GD&T standards, but still no GD&T when it comes to dimensions and tolerances.
Could the prints have had more details that would have allowed even more accurate measurements, sure, but they didn’t make bad parts because they couldn’t read GD&T.
The cmm did show the plane. It’s in the video. They were not even close. .100 from the highest to the lowest.
A better question to ask is. Even if I gave them a procedure on where to pull measurements from, do they have the tools to check? Like a flat surface? Or a way to check squareness? This is where I recommend a fixture table it can help build and QC the object
In your live stream 1/11/2024, at 5:52 in the video, you replied to a question about choosing someone more professional by asking “How would I know that I had selected a “more professional” welder?” If I was facing this challenge, I would have looked for a company that described themselves as a welding and machinery re-builder. My thinking is that any welder who could make parts for machinery repair would have more experience at meeting the tolerances shown on the drawing.
You make a great point about "everyone gets the same level of accuracy and attention, regardless if it’s critical or not. Before having a fixture table, the only true flat surface I had was a 2x2 granite surf plate.
You would have to look into this more but, the price of equipment is more than 10X the cost of mig. The guns are big and heavy and depending on what your building they may be hard to get into some joints. And most of the demos I have seen for this equipment at Fabtech is on very light tube steel. I think it has its place, but it has too many negative’s for a smaller shop in my opinion.
Now if the price starts coming down that could change everything.
It would be cool to see how much difference there would be in warpage between laser and mig
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My limited understanding of the state of laser welding is the same as Knick. I know how big and expensive the parts are for CO2 lasers in the 2-4kw range, and I don’t see laser welding becoming a small shop or home gamer thing till LED pumped laser diodes get a ton cheaper. Like, a TON cheaper.
They turned off the comments to force youu to visit his website. As a medicocre fabricator, i’m pissed. As a marketing major, I’m impressed. He succesfully created a wave to piss off half the country and none of China.