Hi,
Your fixture tables are obviously quite expensive, that’s simply the nature of high quality and precise, products.
So after you use these fabrication companies in your videos, you should provide them with an opportunity to undertake their work, with a complete Fireball Tools fixture table and accessories.
Once they’re used to using it, they’ll better understand the impacts buying one, could have on their productivity and workmanship.
Plus, if they’re agreeable to it, it could make a great YouTube video (e.g. a couple of months with one in their workshop). The. To hear their views and thoughts on it.
Plus you might make a few sales out of it too…
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I think part of the situation is that some of these welding shops honestly don’t understand prints and what everything means. Imo, the problem is them not admitting they dont understand and just saying yup this job is easy.
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I tend to agree. I might add that a lack of formal training could be part of the issue. I would also note that in my 30+ years of fleet maintenance management, having managed many technicians, there are just some folks that do not think in those terms of accuracy. Some folks have that old farm attitude “good enough” while there are some who genuinely care and try hard but don’t have the tools and/or education or training.
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Well made video with well thought out methodology. Any manufacturing process requires foundational reference surfaces as a basis for dimensional accuracy. For fabrication, it’s the table you assemble everything together on that is the foundation. There are tricks that can be done to help compensate for a reference surface that isn’t flat. These tricks no only cost you time, but also risk quality. So much easier and quicker to work with a surfaces you can trust are flat and perpendicular to a known tolerance. It’s challenging enough working with thermal distortion. Working with distortion on a non-flat reference just makes things even more challenging.
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i agree.
I see a problem. I think you tricked these fab shops. I also believe that when money is on the line we don’t get paid enough to take an entire day to make simple parts. I believe it was an easy task that almost every fab shop would do. I like this video though but why turn off the comments on the video itself? I know why, money. You send people to this forum that results in gain, not a bad plan as I also own a shop that deals with retail. We know the game. A fixture table is great but not necessary! Your video should have ended with them making the parts on your table. Let’s face it, you are in the business of selling your product. I give this video 3.5 stars. Now go back to those same venders/fab shops and allow them to do it right with your product.
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Great video. I’m a design engineer and it is funny as you are doing rectilinear dimensions . You did not even introduce GD&T to describe what you wanted. You kept it Simple but the parts are complicated . Simple shops will give you simple results and sometimes that is ok. But usually not. I do not have a good table but shim and clamp. My parts are fair with reasonable holding and pre bending but would still fail. Good tools can help make good parts but know how is huge as well. If I were them, I would have had the parts laser cut and used tab and slot. I would have also cut a template to size to help hold and locate tube tops. I still would have failed. You can’t beat a little know how with a good table.you could run three welds per side of tube and stagger. Probably would still fail without good tools. Tables cost money but can be paid for reasonably fast. Keep the videos coming. People get confused when they see a fabricator make a buggy or motorcycle. Looks good and runs with nice paint. That does not mean the parts are good, just pretty. This is NOT to take away from the creativity of a good fabrication shop making one off machines that are pretty and perfectly functional. But now make 100 more without spending a lot of time on them.
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As a retired field ironworker and hobbyist fabricator I correctly guessed the outcome prior to watching. I think your results were due in part from each shops previous experiences with what I might call a lack of being held to the specifications by most customers. Kind of a close enough mentality that is ingrained over time. My fabrication table has similar issues as your test shops. I overcome the inherent problems by using extensive shimming and clamping along with counter stress and post weld heat correction if the parts are critical. I wouldn’t likely make much money though as the extra attention uses too much time. I would very possibly have done as you suggested and built the frames as a box and cut the legs after fabrication and also tacking the end frames one on top of the other initially before welding. Additionally I use a machinists level when fitting to maintain an even plane on my parts. One other thing to avoid when using less than perfect equipment is to make sure that the seam sides of the tubes all correspond on one plane and are offset to the same side of the center line, in this case to the inside of the box. As always I enjoyed your video! Maybe Santa will be nice and give me a new fixture table for Christmas.
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Loved this video and thinking about weld distortion. (as a backyard welder who runs into these problems constantly and cant justify any kind of serious welding table).
I have worked with some seriously skilled field engineers, though and seen them use heat shrinking to correct these kind of issues by heating the outside of the bow.
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Hi,
This video was very interesting, particularly showcasing the stresses introduced into the tubes through the welding out process. I would like to see a comparison between your fixture table and the “clamping to the plate steel”, demonstrating the deflection in each after cooling. What is causing the difference?
Thanks!
I liked this video a lot because it did show all the stresses. However it is disappointing that all three ‘professional’ welders failed to even check their work that it met the specs. They had no problems accepting payment though which imho is dishonest and a reason why so much manufacturing has gone overseas. It is understandable that u may get a job that is overhead but be professional and honest and tell the customer that u can’t do it or there are some issues.
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I love the challenge videos. As others have stated: No surprise on the failures though!
Jason paid six times for work that did fail the required specifications. None of the fabricators were forced to perform the work! The specifications were clearly outlined, especially for the last three! All failed and none were held accountable for their failed attempts - they all got paid. Feels like receiving participation trophy’s no matter what - as seems to be the new standard everywhere. Why change when there are no consequences?
If I could offer suggestions, it would be for Jason to go back to all 6 and demand a 100% refund or have the work redone to the specification. May be offering (paid) training classes, or partnering with a Trade school that uses the fixture tables and offers training on these challenges … might be good advertisement and allows for a nice write off. But I guess that insurance requirements would block Jason from offering classes. Bummer!
Future video request: How to use heat treatment to address the stress introduced through welding.
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