DIY Fixture table build issue

I have started to build my fixture table a week or so ago.

I am building out of 1/2” plate, 46” x 48”. I am using the Fireball Table drill template V 1. Sheet is square and fairly flat.

Started drilling holes on the short side drilling east/west for 2 courses. I then decided to go north on the left side and drilled a full 12 holes north for 8 rows. I then decided to check my work and turned the template north/south to check hole spacing.

Here is the issue, I can set the pins for 3 to 4 holes fine but then the holes progressively are off. At 8 rows I’m probably .025 off. Every row is this way. East/west everything is fine. North/south-No joy.

Is there something I am doing wrong here? Template not machine correctly. I am baffled.

Hope I am explaining this right, any ideas or advice welcomed here.

TIA

I noticed the same with the newer template. This occurred to me once I reached the end of the table and needed to reverse the foot of the drill like demonstrated in the video.

It’s weird because the fence blocks will fit in every config of the template itself and the entire table but the template will not line up if turned 90* as you mentioned.

As a note to anyone drilling your own table, here’s the solution to keep your grid tolerance accurate

Keep the template “west east” and drill the pilot holes of the next row utilizing the template relief

Then reverse the template, complete the row and continue advancing “north” utilizing this technique instead of the example used in the demonstration video

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WiscoF110

Thanks for the reply on this. I was kind of wondering if this would make a difference with the fence blocks. I don’t have any to try yet. I ordered some including a couple 6” long ones.

This does make sense to do it your way of starting the original holes for the next row by turning the jig 90’ (if I’m reading this right) but just wasn’t sure if I am screwed if i drill the rest of the table this way.

I have called Fireball and am uploading a video to YT as we speak with my issue. I really don’t feel like I can continue on this project till I get an answer from them.

I will post the video here as soon as it’s online.

Here is the video I am sending to Fireball

No, I turn the template 180 at the end of the table. Repeat this process 3 times for the last 3 rows. This was my discovery when I turned the template 90* to create my pilot pin holes like Jason does in the template video. The error over 14 holes was probably close to .250 like you said. My method kept everything on track.

The side skirts were drilled longitudinally and referenced lengthwise with the template 2x17 and 2x29 the fence blocks fit in both X and Y axis. Check my build thread and you’ll see what I’m working with.

You could wait to continue drilling until your blocks arrive otherwise, return the template “west east” and as long as each hole you drilled “north south” aligns with the corner hole of the template, you should be fine.

I messed up an entire row trying a bizarre strategy and just by overlaying the template as a drill guide, each hole cleaned up and is of negligible error in diameter and the fence block pins are compatible with the grid on either side.

Watched your video. I see your process.

My tables are in progress but here’s a shot where I turned my template 90* from how they were drilled. By the 12th hole the bolt is very snug. 13-14 won’t fit at all by about a 1/16”.

But the block will fit the table

And any config of the template and skirts

I think you’ll be ok. What’s your grid pattern?

2x2

Looks like yours. I sent the an email with video to Fireball and I guess I will see what they say.

I am not near .250 off as you posted but I guess if the blocks fit all will be good.

It may be the way it is, but I don’t have to like it. LOL

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I meant how many holes in each axis

I thought you said .250 but I read again it was .025 That’s probably about what I’m off. I disassembled my grid so I could give a better example

Here’s the template 90* from how it was drilled

First hole doesn’t even fit when utilizing the tacking bolt but a 3/4” bolt will fit as I tried to illustrate earlier

Definitely not on the far end

But the fence blocks fit perfectly

Well, maybe I am getting a little too picky here. In doing some measuring I got a dial indicator out and put it on the back side of the jig with the locator pins at each end. I tightened down the pins fairly snug and could move the jig at least .010 one way tapping the jig with a hammer. So here is my .025 after 8 rows of holes. It really could be worse I guess.

I realize this really isn’t a precision instrument per say so I am going to try a little consistent adjusting of the jig before I drill and see what happens.

I will take your word for it that my blocks will fit as you are having the same problems with hole placement as me.

Thanks for the help

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It certainly is a valid concern and I’m curious what the outcome is for you. I haven’t reached out yet as I just want to get through the project first.

I wonder how many of these templates are in use? It would be cool to see people’s projects documented but maybe that’s just me.

I just found the exact same thing last week. I got across an 18in wide plate, and when I turned the fixture 90 degrees I noticed the holes didn’t line up. The row to row spacing was consistently short by about 0.003-0.004, which left row 7 short by ~0.025 relative to row 1. The plate is 18 x 52 but the long edge is dead straight compared to the short sides, so I used that as the starting edge, and was going to finish the plate down the length with the template at 90 to the original pattern, but this kinda screwed up that plan. Before going any further, I decided I wanted to figure out exactly what was going on so I got out the inspection tools.

I found that the 2nd row on my template is a bit short by 0.001, but that alone isn’t going to cause this issue. From what I can tell, the major error is coming from the tacking bolts since they measure 0.746" diameter and don’t have a feature to keep them centered in the template bushings. The lock balls should help center the pin in the table hole a bit, assuming any burr left from the cutter is consistent all the way around the hole, but that could be another source of error.

I’m guessing the grooves on the tacking bolts are for o-rings to keep them from falling out of fixture blocks when being moved around, so I put a 3/4” x 5/8” o-ring in the upper groove that sits in the template, and that helped the alignment quite a bit. Unfortunately I just have “generic” unspecified hardness o-rings on hand, so I could still get some movement in the template before tightening the bolts down, but a higher durometer o-ring would probably help stiffen things up a lot more.

To go one step further, I bought some 3/4" dia cold rolled bar (0.750 +0/-0.002) and used it to make additional alignment pins. They are almost “too tight” since my holes are coming out right around 0.7505 and if there’s ANY amount of debris left in the hole or template, they bind up or just won’t go in at all. So staying consistent with blowing out the holes out was key. This way the tacking bolts were primarily just for clamping the fixture plate down.

To continue down the plate, I used the middle row of the first pass as my “zero” point, instead of the edge of the plate, and extended that row down the length like this:

The cold rolled pins and careful measurement from the good edge helped keep the template located while extending that row, and then I was able to use that row to make sure the spacing stayed accurate as I drilled the rest of the plate.

For the hell of it, I also tossed a couple tooth blocks into the mix so I was referencing more than just the previous row of holes, and the hole pattern across the rest of the table came out dead on perfect! I used the big corner jig to test the pattern, and even without chamfering the holes yet, it drops straight in. :exploding_head:

I put things back together to take this picture for reference, but I have more plates to drill so I’ll take pictures of the process I came up with when I start the next one. I also used a clamp on the far end of the template, but just didn’t put it on for this picture.

I still have to go back and fix the original part of the plate by reaming the holes with the template at 90 degrees, so I’m going to use the middle row as “zero” rather than the starting edge. This will help spread the error out across that section and keep me from having holes that are “ovaled” by almost 0.030.

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Well Done! and thanks for posting hopefully some one at fireball see this and adds locating pins to the package and updated directions from what you have discovered. This will help people moving forward, maybe this post can get pinned.

In the Langmuir forum we mark posts like this solved so when people are searching they can find the most helpful post relating to the problem.

On this one I would take and change the title so it says exactly what the problem was and then put SOLVED on the end.

Maybe something like this “ Getting accurate placement of holes using DIY drill template SOLVED”

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Yea, I have done a little measuring myself and have basicly found out the same thing.

I measured the pins and found the same thing but I went about the plate placement a different way. Probably not the right way, but it seems to work.

I ended up putting the tack pins in and checked the play with a dial indicator. Movement was .010 total. So my solution was just to snug up the pins with an allen wrench and then tap the jig with a brass hammer towards the drill row side. Primative I know, but it seems to work. I then drilled just the 2 end holes, east and west for 5 rows going north. I am now able to turn the jig 90’ and get a pin to fit 8 holes in a row on the left side and 9 on the right. My plan now is just to install the tack pins in the 2 ends on the drill row and finish drilling the middle 10 holes. Check it as I go. Takes more time, but so be it.

I will make a short video on how I am doing this and post it here as well as YT. I will also send this to Fireball.

On a side note, Fireball did get back with me on my original email, but just said they were looking into it.

Thanks all for the replies. Helped a lot and gave me some ideas on how ti mitigate this issue. Hope someone can benefit from this thread.

Knick

If I figure out how to edit the title I will change it.

Tnanks

I don’t think they have that feature turned on after looking. On Langmuir’s site there is a pencil icon that allows you or anyone that has a certin trust level to edit the Title

Here is the video I shot for the solution-Maybe

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How did your table turn out?