@Alexander_Balogh I have a marvel band saw. It’s super fast to change the angle. It takes no more than 10 seconds to switch. So let’s say I can build both parts in the same amount of time should I still charge the customer double the price of square B? To me it’s no difference to cut A or B. The assembly is exactly the same on the fixture table for both. What should I charge the customer, if I have all the slick tools to do the job fast?
But you can’t because you also have 4 lengths to setup instead of 2. So no matter what it’ll take more time. Whether it’s a minute or an hour just depends on your equipment, but no one can make 4 unique parts faster than 2 each of 2 unique parts, and statistically you are more likely to scrap something out the more parts and setups you have. That was the point I was making with my first post. No matter how good you are they shouldn’t cost the same unless you are overcharging for frame B or undercharging for frame A.
Then there’s the inspection process. Checking 4 90° angles will also be faster than 4 unique angles, and making sure they’re in the correct positions takes longer than not having to.
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The marvel is a great saw and if you are running a newer model that added benefit of tilting down to make that 34 degree cut is very nice. My MetalMizer is a similar design but can only tilt to 45 degrees unfortunately which is why it would take me a bit more time to work out the cut geometry for the acute angles.
If you had all the ideal tools for this specific request to make each frame in the same amount of time you would likely be more competitive than most shops and can charge your market price. At that point you need to take into account the opportunity cost of running an expensive saw like a Marvel Mark III for a one off part. What is it costing you to stop production sawing to run this job?
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@mRhAnKbOt Can you share an itemized brake down list of time on a bid for both parts? There is no right or wrong bid price. This is just a discussion that’s interesting.
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For single qty, both A and B will be about the same amount of effort
With A requiring a bit more time setting up saw
full disclosure don’t do job shop work but if I had to price this.
I would quote $993.50 (plus tax and shipping)for each at single qty
might sound high to you, but think about all the time required not just the task, but setup / prep and clean up, also the non fab labor, time with customer, paper work, ordering, ect.
Labor
(conservative amount of time, accounting for setup, task, cleanup for each item)
time with customer 30+ min
order or round up material 10 min
prepare and process invoice 10 min
prepare shop drawing and cut list 45 min (just because someone gives you a drawing doesn’t mean it will work in reality, so do own in CAD and create cut and fab sheets, and for part A cut templates to set saw)
cut and prep stock 30 min
fixture 30 min
weld 45 min
QC 30 min
grind / clean 30 min
4.3 man hours @ 190/h = $823
Machine time 45min @ 25/h = $18.75
Table time 75min @25/h = $31.25
Material $120.50
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Great content as always Jason. Can you also post what you would charge and why? I enjoy seeing your breakdowns, I always learn something.
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I will but I don’t want to influence everyone else’s estimations.
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Even though I could not complete both designs at the same pace/price, Jason, your questions from the standpoint of the client are legitimate. Right now, I really wish I could afford the tools needed to create these designs for the same cost.
However I never justify why my prices are what they are. Furthermore, I very rarely have the issue of clients asking these “tough” questions because of my sales process. In the context of this conversation, it may seem like a cop out, but by asking the right questions to understand your clients true motive and then reassuring them that we can achieve their goal, I am able to offer them a wider range of price they will accept.
In the end, I want to be able to produce the best product as effectively as I can while earning the most money. Vetting for the right clients is what helps me accomplish this the most.
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Very interesting thread here. As a hobbyist I would charge twice as much for the first one. I don’t have the tools to make accurate cuts at angles other than 45 & 90. Nor do I have jigs for the table that will easily hold them at the required angles. If the customer asked why they are so different that would be my explanation.
Having the “right” equipment would allow you to charge less because of the time savings but you have an additional cost of capital you need to recoup.
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When asked how to cut a 22.5 degree cut, my answer is:
With my miter saw that has a 22.5 detent (which has been verified. 
Yes! 
No itemized breakdown! They can take it or leave it!
It’s helpful for the readers of this forum post to include a breakdown of the quote so we can compare differences. I don’t recommend including a detailed breakdown for customer estimates.
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I gotcha! 