As many said, I think the best choice would be to confront them with the out of tolerance pieces and ask them what they can do for you.
There is no excuse for accepting a job and not delivering on it.
Either they can do a job, or they should refuse the job. They should atleast tell you if they had some unexpected problem.
As others have said, I do agree; take them back and see what happens. The entire point of custom work is that you are commissioning work from a person skilled enough and capable of meeting your specs, hence the discussion of said plans. If they are incapable of meeting the specs but take the job anyways, at best it’s a lie, and at worst it is objective fraud. If you get a part or parts that are not up to specs, then they objectively failed and it is not what you paid for. So, give them a chance to make it right. If they don’t, fine, make sure that others know about your experience. Whether it’s a cafe or a steel shop, if you are paying for something custom according to a set of rules or definitions, then you do have the right to demand that it’s at least to spec.
Oh, and the first shop is an outright ripoff. The guy clearly knew the difficulty of the job relative to his setup and attempted to screw you on it without question. Aluminum frame, shoddy tolerances, and more costly than the professional shop? I would be surprised if he even let you in the door, let alone didn’t tell you to f*** off once you explained the issue.
Not every welder is a fabricator and not every fabricator is a welder.
The video clearly shows that tools are a priority. Some people would argue, “Tools don’t make a difference”
Tools make a difference and will make for an easier time; it is what you do with them that matters.
Now, if you want to return the squares, that is up to your discretion. Time is money, I’d only return to the largest shop and find out what they could do. Apparently, they had a QC and certain specifications to meet.
Going to smallest shop would be a waste. You’d expect that the price would match the quality. Going back only to get the same results is insanity.
Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me.
So If I take the squares back, how are they going to correct the frames for flatness and size? They obviously couldn’t check their work the first time. They need a flat surface and an accurate measurement tool. Jason
Fireball,
What to do, what to do. I’m reminded of a parable:
“Power cannot simply be enjoyed for its privileges alone but necessarily makes its holders … responsible both for what they choose to do with it and for what they fail to do with it”. In other words, with great power comes great responsibility. -Uncle Ben
My vote (because you asked) is that you educate and assist those three businesses in acquiring the tools that you fabricate and use in your own shop.
Great videos! Can only watch them on YouTube… just saying.
Drew is the new Chad guy.
Show the video and ask each shop to find a solution. A local best practice might be established. It could benefit everyone.
True. Personally,
I would rather have Drew make the squares.
Shops will always want to charge by the hour. Their business their rules. On the other hand, someone who perfects their craft and has the proper tools can make a huge difference.
It goes to show that if the shops would take pride in their work; They would take the time out of their day ensure everything is done correctly.
They don’t know who their customers are until they messed up the first time and say “get this project out the door ASAP”.
Take pride in your work, ensure is it done well. Maybe it was a new guy fabricating that day?
Do not return them but let them know why you were displeased and would not return.
“one no good wipes out about ten ataboys”
Show these guys what an amateur did and ask them, as professionals, to do as well. That’s not unreasonable or unkind. If they’re a**wipes offer to mention their shop names.
Fixture tables are difficult to make flat and accurate, and generally made from materials that you cant find the metal supply house (cast iron, heat treated, coatings, surface grinding, etch measurements ect.) Ive never seen a DIY table come close to being flat, they are always warped. Ive spoken to a lot of welders over the years at trade shows that regret the (DIY) table they purchased. You get what you pay for. Ive tried to come up a diy table that was usable for the pro but it always ended in failure. How are you going to check for flatness on your table?
My original working station when I started.
After I asked for a table. I originally wanted a FireBall Tool Welding Table but, the owner decided to go with Siegmund 16 System.
Tools make a difference. It builds confidence.
I would go back to each of the companies and talk with the owners in peticular. Let them know what you did, show them the video, and get their reaction to it, and find out what they will do address the deficiency in their operation. Obviously you are not asking for refunds or corrections to be made as this was an experiment not to shame anyone, as all parties were kept confidential, but to make a case on the importance of fixturing for speed , tolerance, and repeatability even for the novice. And to possibly show an owner maybe his hired fabricators aren’t really holding the tolerances he thinks they are. And if you should happen to know a guy who manufacturers tooling to help correct their problem, well then its a win win for both parties.
hilarious
I vote none of the above.
My reasoning:
They were not made to spec. If they couldn’t do it to spec, they shouldn’t have taken the job. They certainly should not have delivered the work without checking it.
However, I would not ask them to fix it, since that wouldn’t do you any good (unless you have some other use for them).
I also wouldn’t necessarily ask for a refund. You used the pieces in what is technically a marketing (and educational) video. So, you did get value out of them.
I would however notify them that their pieces were out of spec, and whomever accepted the job should not have, and whomever actually did the work should have checked the work before sending it out.
If you were actually shopping for a place to outsource work to, I’d also let them know they lost any future business from you, in the hopes that they take that as inspiration to improve their work as to not lose more customers. If not, then I’d say leave it out.
I can’t imagine its an easy time for these types of shops. You got the value out of it you needed to make the point you needed to make. A refund to me would feel like buying a shirt, wearing it with the tag on, and then returning it. Even if it is defective.
I think that what they (the shops) say when presented with the quality of their work will tell the us the audience as much about the shops as the initial work performed. Well worth asking them to repair the frames.
Well…LET THEM DECIDE. Show them the video and see what they want to do…if they want to do NOTHING…OK…but let them have the choice.
Milvio,
I think your answer is the best. Giving honest and kind constructive feedback is the human thing to do.
Cheers!
Bruce
The very question to ask them - along with perhaps asking “why didn’t you figure that out when you saw the drawing?”
I’m a locksmith in southern Arizona. Please turn the comments back on. I know some people get upset and start spouting non-sense, but that’s just the thing! You proved the haters wrong!
I’m used to working to tight tolerances in the aerospace world. If you can’t hold to what the print requires, or even figure out what it requires and are not willing to verify things with your client, then you have no business bidding the job.