16mm tooling

I know you started making 5/8" tooling. But do you have plans of making 16mm also? Im just worried about extra slop with my 16mm table.

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@R2112 Yep it’s in the works.

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Are 16 mm and 5/8 single stud futures interchangeable ?

Quote from fireball webstore “ While originally designed for 5/8" holes, the difference in size between 5/8 and 16 mm is only 0.005" (less than two Post-It Notes thickness). Our tests indicate equal performance of pressure exerted with these clamps when used with 5/8" holes on thick plate vs 16 mm holes on 1/4" plate without slipping. ”

As I understand the standard spacing for 16 mm fixture table is 50mm , so multi stud items such as the fence blocks would not interchange.

I’d look forward to replies to further my understanding

If I understand you correctly, I remember reading that the fence blook’s thread differs.
The 5/8" fence blook thread is not the same; like the ones in the fence blook thread, it is 16mm!
This might be related to the Fire Ball EU!

yep, I would assume you’re correct. I don’t think the 16 mm uses the same thread as 5/8. But that is not my focus, Main focus is on diameter and hole spacing. Based on the webstore stating “Our tests indicate equal performance of pressure exerted with these clamps when used with 5/8” holes on thick plate vs 16 mm holes on 1/4" plate without slipping. ” I don’t see the diameter being an issue.

My focus is on the spacing. The fence blocks have 2 studs. I assume that 50 mm spacing fixtures do not mesh with the 2 inch spacing.

Please let me know if my assumptions need correcting.

@Jlw Single pin 5/8 tooling will be a sloppy fit in the 16mm hole tables, 16mm tooling will not work on 5/8 tables. I’d advise against mix matching any tooling. Clamps are the worst because they lean back to far when force is applied. Also you can get in trouble with slotted tooling. The hole centers are also not compatible.

There’s two things about 16mm tables, the hole size and the hole spacing.

In Europe all the tables are 16mm holes and 50 mm spacing.
In the US, there are 16mm holes on both 50mm and 2" spacing.

16mm is 0.630" so the tools generally do not fit in the 5/8 holes which are .625". Tools are generally undersized to fit into the holes, but they are both adjusted to fit their respective systems.

The Fireball blocks, we have 3 systems in this size range.

FA625 is the 5/8 hole on 2" centers
FA16 is 16mm holes on 2" centers
FM16 is 16mm holes on 50mm centers for Europe.

For ease of production, FA625 and FA16 parts use 5/8" threads.
FM16 is made along with FM19 and they both use an M16 thread.

(For people nerding out on table stuff, FA75 is our internal designation for the 3/4 system on 2" centers, and FM19 is the metric system which uses 3/4" (19mm) holes on 50mm spacing. There’s so many table systems we had to spend a whole day figuring out a quick and easy way to discuss the systems in a clear and concise manner that was easy to pick up.

There’s a lot of things between 5/8 and 16mm that could work together, but it’s too many things for most people to keep track of so we just make a completely separate set of parts and part numbers, it’s a huge pain but that’s what it is.

Clamps from 5/8 will work with 16mm tables, it’s a little sloppier but they work with same amount of clamping pressure. I would not advise it with blocks.

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BTW, we’re about to expand our range of clamps available in 16mm, and have more blocks coming soon as well.

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This post is 24 days old. And eta when the 16mm blocks will be available? I need some.

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I remember seeing that 16mm tooth blocks would be available…is that the FM16 series? When can we expect them?

there are two 16mm series. FM16 is for metric hole spacing, FA16 is for inch hole spacing.

I’m not sure when all the blocks will be available, we have a long production queue right now

FA16 will be available in the US first, the FM16 is going to Europe first, but eventually will be some available in the US also

I have a few buildpro tables by Stronghold tools. Rhino carts and the MAX slotted tables specifically. On the stronghand tools website it states that the tables are imperial with 5/8 holes and 2" spacing, however on the Australian supplier “machinery house” website where we purchased these tables it states that the holes are 16mm with 50mm spacing. Has anybody else noticed this/checked this out? Would like to add some fireball tooling to the arsenal.

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The tables BuildPro sells in Australia are going to be 16mm holes on 50 mm centers. We don’t offer that style of tooling at the moment. It would be what we call the FM16 specs.

If you bought a BuildPro table in the US, you have what would be 5/8" diameter holes on 2" spacing, which we sell as FA625, where the part number will start with FA625-xxx.

For any other users out there with tables like Certiflat, Harbor Freight, most likely they are using FA16 specs which is 16mm holes on 2" centers.

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I bought a Kovosu table, 16mm holes on 50mm spacing. This is what Fireball is calling their FM16 and its quite popular among other table makers. It would be nice to get the Fireball toothblocks but they’re apparently making Europe a priority.

Why would you buy a metric table in the US??

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If you fabricate stuff for non-US machines or for stuff that gets sent overseas. Also, a LOT of scientific and lab equipment uses exclusively metric, high end bakery machines are mainly imported from Germany/Switzerland/Austria, there are lots of good reasons, jist depends what you’re working on. Metric is more and more out 5here, talk to any car mechanic, even US car manufacturers are using exclusively metric fasteners.

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Everything you’re saying makes sense but I’ve sure had an easy time using US measurements even for foreign vehicles and other parts.

I went with metric for everything for a long time but eventually I decided to go back to imperial. It turns out to feel more ergonomic to me as a measuring system, like our 7-day week as opposed to Napoleon’s 10-day week. I like how the numbers line up with metric, but I went back. Maybe I’m stubbornly American, too.

I didn’t consider the baking equipment. Germans make good stuff.

Yeah baking equipment I just happen to know because my dad is a baker and I regularly go help out fix the occasional broken machine. He just bought a 13,000 dollar cookie machine from Italy, haha. It was just one example of industries that are switching over, but I tend to agree with you, my brain just…thinks in inches. I’m getting ready to move to Australia for a couple years this summer and will have to just get used to metric measurements but in my mind I will convert it back to inches because that’s what is more tangible to me.

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It doesn’t matter whether it’s metric or standard as long as it’s equally spaced and repeatable. Do you think any of your fabrications are going to fall into a 2" spacing? Think about it- you’re going to use some form of analog measure to set fence blocks and build your fixture, maybe its a tape measure, or a solid rule but you’re not relying on 50mm (in my case) or 2" spacings. Once you get mind wrapped around that- the cost savings of a metric table make a ton of sense :slight_smile:

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I could see that, but it definitely makes things less convenient. I like being able to use 24 holes as a quick and dirty measure for 48" and to be able to get even spacing from a part that lines up to inches. I’m not saying you can’t make it work, I’m just not sure I’d be willing to trade the annoyance for a lower price myself.