Hey everyone, we just got done with a new video and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it.
Watch it here: https://youtu.be/yhKZIsH08CM
Jason
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This cut of the video is now exclusively on our exclusive videos page
To be fair, I find both this video as well as the one from quantum linked in the topic below too biased to take much out of it. This kind of product comparison testing should be done by people that don’t take any benefit in selling more.
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Pretty good tests as always! One caveat, though. Concerning the very last test you did with the hammer rig that was supposed to simulate a sudden impact like a forklift backing into the table or something like that: I think it would have been a bit more scientific if you found out what the load of an accident like that was with your load cell to get an actual number before you did the hammer tests.
For example, if you had attached the load cell to the side of the table and actually backed the forklift into it so you could see exactly how much force an impact like that would produce. And then take that number and compare that to how much force the hammer was applying.
Another possible example could have been the load cell being set up on the bottom of the table leg maybe just above the caster, and then you actually push the table into something like bottom of a stair case, or a really heavy machine or any sort of hard stop on the floor to see what the force that was produced was in a real life scenario. And then again, take that number and compare against how much force the hammer was applying.
I do also realize that those tests could have variables, and all the tests you do go a long way toward isolating variables, but I still think having a general idea of what the real-world amounts of force are for those types of scenarios would have been cool to see so we could know how far beyond real-life the hammer blows were going.
But the video as a whole: Thumbs up!
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So how do you think Siegmund came up the claim “The Most Strongest and Durable Tables Ever Made”? Did they have outside testing done comparing all the table manufacturers?
I don’t believe knowing the exact force is necessary. The more important part is what happens to the leg and table. As you saw in the video the leg mount on the Siegmund table gets bent. To me this is an unacceptable failure. The leg should fail first before the table does.
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Of course not, but I guess you can claim the same no? It’s just marketing strategy. I feel like people read through that anyway, but perhaps I’m wrong.
Oh I agree. I wasn’t implying that the test was invalid or inconclusive. I just found myself wondering about that as I was watching the test like “ya know I wonder how much force a hit from forklift actually is…”
We’re not going to claim to be the strongest or the most durable tables ever made. That’s absolutely ridiculous. I don’t believe any table can win every category. Theirs always a design compromise for every advantage or feature and price. For example my experience is. Cast iron tables are very flat and spatter resistant with the trade off of surface hardness. A hardened table is going to sacrifice flatness due to the heat treat process. Siegmund claims a flatness tolerance of +/- .019. This is huge in the fixture table world.
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Ok, im impressed for sure!! Now how about you autograph the table, throw a new leg on it and sell it with the corner missing?
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What surprised me was the plate on top of the leg bending before the leg itself. the plate looked to be 1/2" but it sure seem to buckle much easier than I would have thought.
Interesting Video, Cant imagine how much time you spent doing all the testing.
Thanks
I didn’t mean to offend you, Jason. You come up with excellent design and engineering solutions and your welding tables look like a dream to work with. I love the tooth block concept for precision jigging, though I’ve never used it myself.
To me this video mainly seems like a reaction to that biased video that came out from Quantum which comes across as being manipulated to make your product look bad. I find this kind of marketing where you compare your own product with a specific other one and only point out the bad things in the competitors product too biased and therefore not bringing much value. I’m quite disappointed by Siegmund/Quantum for doing this.
At the same I understand your reaction video as well. That video from Quantum was unnecessary and attacking your products so you need to defend them as to not damage your brand. I’d rather have had you counter their accusations, like you do here on the forums, and explain your reasoning behind specific choices rather than just highlighting flaws in competitors design. But that’s just my 2 cents.
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I’m not claiming to have the “Most strongest, Most durable tables Ever Made”.
like Siegmund is. I would have outside testing done if I was interested in making this claim. I don’t think Siegmund should trick the customers with false advertising. It’s impossible for a fabricator to test and use every single table design and determine what is true and false. Fabricators are forced to take the word of the table companies as the truth.
In todays world you really cant believe anyone. I normally don’t buy anything with out doing lots of research, unless its really cheap and then I just plan on getting something I don’t think will last. Sometimes I get shocked and the cheap stuff works far better and longer than I anticipated
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To answer your question in the video “Is this just a bold marketing claim?”: Yes it is. I don’t like it, you don’t like it, but unless somebody legally accuses them of false advertising they say whatever they want. Including some other things I see as being more problematic and easier to debunk as well as usable for winning a legal case against them:
I do think your beef should be more focused on Quantum machinery group instead of Siegmund. On Siegmunds website I don’t see these claims. The website you are referring to with those claims is owned by Quantum.
Siegmunds website seems to be more humble and not making claims like Quantum is doing.
@Siemen Siegmund said they received awards for the material development? How do you get a award for this? This seems weird to me.
I don’t think that small mention of some awards on a kind of hidden page on Siegmunds website is gonna be the deal maker for people considering buying a fixture table.
I feel like you’re nitpicking a bit around what I’m trying to say so I think it’s best for me to just leave this discussion for what it is.
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Wow Jason!! So intense! Lol awesome testing and awesome video! The extreme testing has always drawn me to your Channel and of course how intelligent and smart you are. This is definitely the kind of stuff that everyone should appreciate in the quality of the tooling! Can’t wait for what’s next. On a side note, I would love to do a challenge build on my channel in conjunction with you on building your fireball vice! Let me know if you’re interested in something like this. Ps: I’d love to dig threw your testing pile and revamp one of those tables for my shop! 
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A friend of mine is a dentist. He jokes that in 15 years of practicing, no one has ever asked him if he recommends Crest toothpaste. So where are these “four out of five densities recommend Crest” statistics in the commercials coming from?
Love my Dragon Wagon. Super stable and easy to work with. Legs are the best feature.
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I think Jason’s video reply was perfect. no false claims and rightly so highlights his tables upside and I didn’t see him hide any flaws ( in the tests he did in the video). But I do think he avoided the probably true issue if you hit the corner of the table it can dent. Question I have is how hard of an impact will it take to dent the fireballl table? Will dropping a heavy piece of tube on the edge dent it?